[–] [deleted] 2 points 130 points (+132|-2) ago 

[Deleted]

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[–] snakepaws 2 points 91 points (+93|-2) ago 

Exactly. If you see something illegal, report it. There's quite a few things I don't like. Know what I do? I don't go to where those things are.

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[–] Stoic 8 points 14 points (+22|-8) ago  (edited ago)

Honestly, there probably is some illegal content being posted on there but no one who cares is checking. Are you checking? If stuff does get posted there that is illegal then it could be argued that Voat should have known about that, potentially unleashing a massive shitstorm.

I can both care about free speech and about little girls being unknowingly exploited. Posting pictures of a little girls holiday to jerk off to and sharing it with others so that they can jerk it as well, hardly seems to be speech to me. People reading this and immediately thinking that free speech shouldn't be limited because of feelings like in the case of Mohammed, then I fully agree to the extent that I myself drew muhammed getting fucking in the ass by a pig (titled: muhammed is fucking pig in the ass). This isn't about protecting feelings or about being grossed out, but instead that it is inherently wrong to do what they do. Pictures =/= speech.

That being said, I think that right now, without being presented evidence, they shouldn't be banned -- yet. It would take very little evidence for me to change my mind though, as I already am skeptical that they do not share stuff through pm's .

Edit: I just went through a couple links and already found some nude photos. I'd at least ban all nudity being posted on the sub, unless we know their age. She does seem legal, but still, i'd ban nudity because there is no way to know if the nudes are of girls that are old enough:

https://voat.co/v/jailbait/comments/145051

Edit 2: Pictures =/= speech

Most important part of my response to the person below me:

Why am I reddit mod? I think they should be banned, am I not allowed to have that opinion? I can separate my own opinion with what the community wants, the latter of which determines what I shall and shall not do. It's probably even good that you know my biases and opinions.

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[–] Ar_Nimruzir 0 points 5 points (+5|-0) ago 

Thank you! This is the internet, if you don't like something on it you don't have to see it!

I wish more people felt like you did.

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[–] the_spectre 1 point 17 points (+18|-1) ago  (edited ago)

Not a lawyer, but as I understand it, it just depends on where you are, who you are, and what exactly you're seeing. It's a really grey area which is what makes it such a difficult situation...but it's something that will need to be decided one way or the other soon.

Edit: Personally, I would err on the side of caution. Freedom of expression is something that I think is non-negotiable, but the presence of v/jailbait may actually give the people who want to shut down Voat legal ammunition and definitely allow them to malign the site in the eyes of the general public, which is very bad if Voat wants to become an active alternative to Reddit. It's less a freedom of expression issue and more a CP issue. And CP should get the banhammer. Hard.

[–] [deleted] 0 points 14 points (+14|-0) ago 

[Deleted]

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[–] Spank_My_Bottom 0 points 1 point (+1|-0) ago 

"Freedom of expression is something that I think is non-negotiable. Except when expressing something controversial so we should ban it so people do not thing we are weirdos or something."

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[–] TexasComments 3 points 10 points (+13|-3) ago  (edited ago)

My company does extensive work with the US Federal Task Force known as ICAC or Internet Crimes Against Children. This subverse has taken down the reporting option through a CSS change and allowed for anonymous posting. This is a serious problem. We are now kicking this up the chain with archive captures of the site because many of these girls fall into the illegal category on the Tanner Index as well as matching images in the NCMEC-EIDB.

Kill this Subserse now or better yet allow for reporting regardless of CSS in the sub and disabling of CSS to report and start removing all links to child pornography sites and jailbait photos that are sexually explicit.

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[–] Subarukayak 0 points 9 points (+9|-0) ago 

If you have evidence there's illegal activity, it's not open to a debate in a forum. Report it. The burden of proof is on the prosecution. Feefees aren't admissible in court. You'll have to do better than that.

Everything above and beyond correspondence with Law Enforcement is moot. The age of consent in Washington DC is 16 and there are plenty of instances of US congressmen having sexual relationships with minors. As for the Tanner Index itself- it's been proven to lead to many false accusations. I remember a case over a Spanish Porn star who looked 'too young' being well into her 20s.

So it's ultimately up to Atko. Not any of us. It doesn't affect me one way or the other. No need to kill the subverse- no need to address the mod of the sub as they have no means of control. There's no reason for a private citizen to contact Atko regarding potentially illegal activity. That's harassment.

You take the purported information to Law Enforcement and they'll sort it out.


I suppose the next step is to attack Barnes and Noble for their selection of Jailbait fiction... oooh that's a serious problem! For who?

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[–] ExtravagantBum 0 points 4 points (+4|-0) ago 

I'm the moderator of the subreddit, so I'll chime in and take your bait:

1) Anonymous mode is active. Once active it can never be undone by design.

2) While people cannot report with a link, they can still see the moderators name on the sidebar and message them to get content removed if they choose to.

3) If there is illegal content please feel free to report it to law enforcement and we will comply with formal takedown requests from authorities in the host country of Voat.co

[–] [deleted] 0 points 4 points (+4|-0) ago 

[Deleted]

[–] [deleted] 2 points 10 points (+12|-2) ago 

[Deleted]

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[–] gilbertsmith 0 points 4 points (+4|-0) ago 

But /v/jailbait is problematic, because the title itself really does mean that only illegal content should be posted.

My understanding of the phrase "jailbait" is that it applies to people who are just barely over the age of consent. They're legal, but you're going to get questions.

Maybe I'm wrong, but it's a different thing from a straight up CP sub.

I think it should stay as is for now. Reddit functioned with /r/jailbait for years. If illegal stuff gets posted there, cops will come knocking, and the admins can decide what to do then. If it comes down to voat or a subverse, I'll side with voat, but until someone forces the admins to make that choice, they should take a hands off approach.

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[–] escape 1 point 91 points (+92|-1) ago 

Fuck censorship. If you don't like it, don't go there. It's as simple as that. If you want censorship, go to reddit.

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[–] brillsama 1 point 13 points (+14|-1) ago 

exactly

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[–] Zen0 0 points 61 points (+61|-0) ago 

If it's illegal, then sure.

If it is legal, then let it be.

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[–] greiton 2 points 10 points (+12|-2) ago 

illegal where? this site is visited by people around the world. i guarantee it is illegal for one of them.

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[–] Bunny_Pope 0 points 34 points (+34|-0) ago 

Then they shouldn't go there if they know it's illegal.

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[–] snakepaws 1 point 7 points (+8|-1) ago 

Sure. But if you were to ban subs based on the legality of a subject worldwide, this would be a pretty barren place.

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[–] Sops 0 points 5 points (+5|-0) ago 

It is illegal to advocate pro gay rights in Russia, should that be banned on voat? The website should follow the law of the country it is hosted in, it can not cater to the laws of every country on earth.

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[–] 2716057 0 points 5 points (+5|-0) ago 

Simple: Switzerland. /u/Atko has already stated that this will be the standard for what's allowed on Voat.

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[–] pilgrimboy14 0 points 60 points (+60|-0) ago 

And this is how it begins.

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[–] derram 1 point 13 points (+14|-1) ago 

Pretty sure this is the third time I've seen this thread, actually.

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[–] Netatron 0 points 7 points (+7|-0) ago 

I think he meant "this argument is how justification for censorship of disagreeable content begins," just like it did on reddit, not "this thread is how voat begins to be censored."

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[–] StackOfPancakes 3 points 39 points (+42|-3) ago 

Didn't take long for censorship requests to be upvoted. I wonder if there will ever actually be a community that promotes free speech. Where if you see something you dislike, or read something you dislike you just ignore it instead of try to quash it.

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[–] Clue [S] 4 points 4 points (+8|-4) ago 

Well, it's more of a legality issue (lies in a grey area) and as a result, an issue for the entire website. Should we not learn from the scandals Reddit endured as a community? Yes, opinions about fat people, racism, and other types of free speech are accepted here; however, something that is actually borderline illegal and could get people in trouble should be quashed.

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[–] StackOfPancakes 1 point 35 points (+36|-1) ago  (edited ago)

borderline illegal

could get people in trouble

Until it's actually illegal and it will get people in trouble there is no reason to do anything. If you see anything actually illegal report it and I'm sure the admins will handle it. But the idea that one user could post something illegal and for an entire board to be banned as a result is the exact reason I left reddit. I don't like the FPH people, I don't agree with how they behave, but censorship is censorship and banning a subverse because their actions can be seen as "legal but almost not" is ridiculous and heavy handed. The day Atko and friends start behaving that way is the day I move to another site.

By the rationale posted by a lot of people in this thread we should ban all posts related to drugs or drug paraphernalia because it's borderline illegal depending on a whole lot of different factors.

[–] [deleted] 1 point 39 points (+40|-1) ago 

[Deleted]

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[–] dtch 0 points 10 points (+10|-0) ago 

Exactly. It's not like people are being forced to look at nude minors (people under 18 years of age). The sub has removed itself from /v/all to prevent things like this. OG, you are driving people TO the sub by posting about it.

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[–] Spank_My_Bottom 0 points 1 point (+1|-0) ago 

Exactly. I am really queasy that people are masturbating to faeces, but I will not advocate banning of /v/scat. Let those people do their own thing!

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[–] Advocatus_Diaboli 1 point 37 points (+38|-1) ago 

Do you have evidence of illegal activity? Do you have evidence that they have posted CP? Do you have any evidence of wrongdoing more substantial than "eww, I don't like it"?

If it's breaking a law, then by all means, bounce their happy ass off the site, if not, you have a "block" button for a reason.

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[–] Clue [S] 5 points 0 points (+5|-5) ago  (edited ago)

The issue lies in the hands of the users of the subverse. The subreddit came under a bunch of flack, and eventually was removed when the users were found to be exchanging child porn through PM's.

edit: Yes, there has been evidence of illegal activity. Nude photos have been confirmed to be posted there by @stoic.

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[–] Advocatus_Diaboli 0 points 21 points (+21|-0) ago 

And if there's evidence that that's happening here, then as I said: ban 'em. But as it stands, you've offered no evidence of wrongdoing. You want to ban them for what they might do, or what you think they'll do, and not only is that not a valid reason for banning a sub, it would make Voat just another "wolf-in-goat's-clothing": banning ideology because it's icky. If you're okay with that, you might as well go back to Reddit.

If you don't like /v/jailbait, then don't go there. It's really that simple.

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[–] Pappy 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

I think that brings up a good question about PMs, can/are they being monitored? Obviously people want their privacy, but voat also has to look out for its' own ass concerning illegal things going on in private.

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[–] Dontcensormebro 0 points 20 points (+20|-0) ago 

I think a lot of us came to this site because of free speech, and to see people already asking for a subverse to be censored due to political correctness is sad.

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[–] Mumberthrax 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

this is a conversation which voat has been having with itself for a while before you joined. voat is not just about free speech, it is... or was... something nice with relaxed people who wanted a nice community, and we were respectful when trying to figure out issues like this one. this latest influx of reddit culture has kind of messed that up...

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[–] dis_is_my_account 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

Can't keep large populations civil as well as small populations. I've seen so many fights break out since the migration.

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[–] Dontcensormebro 0 points 1 point (+1|-0) ago 

I had another account before but forgot the password because the site was dead, so I've actually been here a while. I think most of the users here did come for reddit over time due to censorship which started when jailbait was banned over on reddit. I remember in the early days people would always recommend voat due to censorship, so I think that your belief that people came to voat for a "nice community" is really just not true and never has been true.

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[–] matt 0 points 1 point (+1|-0) ago 

Yes. This has been my experience. It also seems that everyone wants to chime in on how they think the site should be shaped as it grows. They seem to be unaware that the site creator has reached carefully considered decisions on many of the topics they bring up.

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[–] Spank_My_Bottom ago 

It is still large community, and giant point of the community was freedom for its subcommunities. It was point of this site from its inception. How many subvrses has /u/atko banned?

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